An Interview with Israel's Left - Yesh Gvul (There Is A Border)

Jerusalem----March 16......Israel is a true democracy.
The only democratic country in the Middle-East.
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In celebration of democracy and given U.S. Middle East Envoy Anthony Zinni's present peace mission to the Middle-East, the INA has interviewed Perertz Kidron, leader of Yesh Gvul which advocates that all Israeli soldiers should abandon their posts in the West Bank and Gaza, that they should not serve in the "occupied territories."

Last Saturday, Mr. Kidron's organization's comments appeared in the Op-Ed pages of the New York Times.
Some may think, especially in times of war - given the endless acts of blatant and bloody terrorism against Israeli civilians, that Kidron and Yesh Gvual consist of "traitors" or dreamy-eyed, naive activists who are advocating a policy which would lead to Israel's quick destruction.
In Israeli society - we must remain "rosh gadol" maintaining a large, open and receptive mind. We must permit and encourage dialogue among ourselves, we can not afford the luxury of having two very distinct political camps separated by hate and lack of understanding. We must understand and respect where the other side is coming from. "A house divided will fall" - it is our intention that this house we call Israel, will stand for many, many years to come.
So even as Israeli troops are presently risking their lives in Israel's war against terrorism, searching for terrorist weapons and explosives, to secure and neutralize these barbaric tools of terrorism so that they are not used against Israeli civilian populations - you decide if Yesh Gvul is endangering the lives of Israeli soldiers, endangering the security of the State of Israel and are "dreaming" or "naive" in their comments:

INA: We also believe that "you make peace with enemies, not with friends"
We truly believed in Rabin and Barak's peace efforts - but just like Barak and Clinton and most moderates in Israel - we now feel very burned that Arafat walked away from a Camp David peace agreement.
Please tell us how you would deal with a population (Palestinian) which has been coordinating a phased war for several years, is using the weapons against Israel (that we gave to them as a peace element) incites their children to hate and sees Tel Aviv as occupied territory?

Kidron: I insist on my Jewish prerogative of answering a question with another question: What do you do with a man who pokes you in the eye for no better reason than that you are stepping on his toe ?
We have indeed suffered grievously from the Palestinians - but nowhere near as badly as they have suffered from us. We are currently in the process of shedding their blood, as they are in relation to us. Where is it getting us ?
There are serious disputes between us and them. But I should remind you that when it looked as though we were negotiating with them in good faith - under Rabin - the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian population supported peace, the fanatics were marginalised, and violence was far below the present level.
Whatever happens, the madmen will remain - ours and theirs. They have to be dealt with, and the best way is to give the majority on both sides a deal that will create a vested interest to maintain the peace, and control the gunmen.
I believed Rabin had a true change of heart. Not so Barak, who tried to "bundle" the Palestinians into an unacceptable agreement the way he shoved Arafat through that doorway at Camp David - very typical of his overbearing attitude. Arafat walked away from that deal because he was required to sign on the dotted line that he has "no further claims" when the deal he was offered fell far short of a reasonable minimum. Just as I'd refuse to sign one of those insurance company "no claims" forms if they don't give me my minimal needs. The question is whether it's better to go on with the present course of mutual terrorism, or to make a true and serious effort to resolve differences, on an equitable basis. In other words, to refrain from making them a "final offer" that we in their place would never accept, instead to end the occupation and allow them what we demand for ourselves - self determination and a dignified life.
Long before Rabin adopted the slogan, the Israeli peace movement coined it: You make peace with enemies, not with friends.

INA: Who would you negotiate with?

Kidron: Who do we talk to ? Their leadership, whether we love them or not, whether or not they have Jewish blood on their hands. Just as they have to talk to our leadership, whatever they think of Sharon and Mofaz, who have no little Palestinian blood on theirs.

INA: Should the United States make peace with Bin-Laden after Bin-Laden's attacks on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, the hijacking and destruction of 4 passenger planes and his present declaration of war?

Kidron: I don't think so, but even in the Bin Laden matter, I think the US and the West are making matters too simple for themselves. The question they should be asking about him is: why is he so popular in the Third World ? Maybe there are true grievances there that need to be tackled, rather than kill a few fanatics ?

INA: It's been documented that Arafat is waging a war of phases - talking peace in English - talking war in Arabic - who do you respond to this?

Kidron: Arafat is no saint, but he generally follows the Israeli lead - when Israel seemed genuine in its peace offers, he responded in kind, in Arabic and Hebrew. When there's a tank outside his window, he talks war - in Arabic and Hebrew. I'd do the same.

INA: Look at the emblems and maps of the PA, they all illustrate Palestine as including all of Israel - pre 1967.
Arafat is not seeking just the territories - he, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah want it all. They want Tel Aviv, Haifa and Ashdod. As Faisal Husseni stated in June 2001: "The Oslo agreements were a Trojan Horse" and "The strategic goal is to liberate Palestine from the river to the sea."?

Kidron: The Palestinians have a profound historical grudge against Israel, that's certain, because they feel they were robbed of their land. The majority are prepared to swallow that anger for a pragmatic deal, as long as they get a quarter of that land. As they see Sharon and Gang offering them 40% of that quarter, they feel they're being screwed again. If they can't get the minimum, its back to maximalism. We can't have it both ways.

INA: Israel pulled out of the security zone in Lebanon, as a peace move. Today, Arab Islamic terrorists are ignoring an international border with Hezbollah using ladders to climb over an international border security fence and with no buffer zone in place directly shooting at and killing innocent civilians in our towns and on our roadways.
Don't we need a buffer zone from the "madmen" who have Quassem missiles pointed at our cities?

Kidron: Israel moved out of the "security zone" 18 years after the invasion of Lebanon, after thousands of Lebanese citizens had been killed, maimed or left homeless. Israel moved out not as a peace move, but because its position had become untenable due to Hizballah attacks. It was military necessity, and no-one deserves credit for surrendering illegally occupied land.
There was no Hizbollah when Israel invaded Lebanon. The Shi'ites who are its principal power base welcomed the Israeli soldiers. But when the occupation dragged on, at a terrible cost to them, they fought back. What kind of gratitude do you expect from them in return for Israel giving up its aggression ? The "buffer zone" merely intensified Lebanese anger. It may be regrettable, but Israel is not an island. We have to live with our neighbours, not try to dominate and crush them.

That's it in a nutshell.

Kidron: As an objective moderate, why don't you try the intellectual exercise of putting yourself into Palestinian/Lebanese shoes ? If you can bring yourself to do so, it would answer all your questions.

INA: Palestinian / Lebanese shoes come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes ;>